Mosaic … I will be sure to seal the grout. This is for tiled shower with a low profile curb (not totally curbless). Now channel glass is bringing diffused daylight, privacy and more to residences, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. The plan is to redguard over all of it. Either you use a vapor barrier behind the hardi, or you can use a waterproofing system (like redgard) over the hardi, but you should not do both. Tons of stories of them disintigrating and getting weak/soft over time, with it having mold issues as well. Formerly gardenweb.com in the home section / bathrooms. For the sake of a more critically sound position, I'll revise my previous statement to say: "You should consult a local pro for your local code requirements and ideally have a pro install it for you to minimum code standards, but in my opinion, a true physical membrane product with a factory calibrated thickness and elasticity is better than a field painted coating that rates as a membrane especially if you aren't going to have a pro do the install." What about stapling plastic to the studs? The fact remains that Redguard, HydroBan, etc. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? chefmarv1. Stack Exchange network consists of 176 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Your tile guy has done good from what I can see in the pict. Had it signed off by our surveyor who was amazed by it. That looks like a fine install to me, there is no water-lock because the Redgard is not covering the entire front surface to be tiled. Ha, I defiantly plan on sealing the edges now. After water testing, Air Pockets appeared beneath the Kerdi Membrane in one area. You'll have to wait for the fills to dry or at least setup anyway. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. Contrary to popular belief, ceramic tile and grout, by themselves are not waterproof. It's recommended for waterproofing niches, shelves, and entire shower walls when tar paper or poly are not used as a vapor barrier behind the CBU. Also Know, can you tile over waterproof membrane? RedGard is a ready-to-use, liquid formula that creates a seamless waterproof barrier and prevents common cracks from occurring in tile, stone and grout. When taping cement board do I need to tape at the walls? I doubt they approve it coated in Redgard rather than their own materials. Should it cure first? yes the redgard can easily come off your bath tub.......use a wood paint stick, a door shim, anything which is not harder than porcelain..... Katie F, what did you decide on your shower system? What type of tile should I install in a bath/shower surround? Will the Red Guard bond to the Kerdi and is this a good idea? As pointed out before I WILL NOT use the Redgard. I am installing wood like porcelain tile over a wood substrate. Cover the joints with KERDI-FLEX. From what I have read, the premixed thinset does not dry out to form a good adhesive bond when applied over/under a non-permeable membrane like Redguard or the Kerdi-band products. Does this picture show an Arizona fire department extinguishing a fire in Mexico? First, you will need to plan on painting with a primer. But after spending a few extra dollars and going for the Kerdi Board system, I will never use anything else! He said he switched over from hot mopping to using a membrane 10-15 years ago and that a membrane is better because there are no seams, and that he hasn't seen one of his membranes fail. The dry mix (where you add the water on-site) does. you do want the plastic to extend to the lip and a bead of silicon would make a great seal. Redguard would be an over it application. We used a paint primer first (tinted the same colour as the waterproofer) then used 3-4 coats of the waterproofer. Now days in my own home I do use Redguard even though just cement board will outlast me. The more expensive dry mix thinsets … RedGuard is a great product, but maybe in the future consider using the Schluter Kerdi shower product. Gotcha, thanks for the link. I've installed Kerdi Membrane as my shower pan. Not me. To allow for greater movement, the center section of the KERDI-FLEX can be tucked into the cavity of the expansion joint prior to bonding. What is a good font for both Latin with diacritics and polytonic Greek, Significant error with unity-gain feedback op-amp. Red Guard Application over Kerdi. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Redguard would be an over it application. I'll come up with a creative distraction for sure. Thanks so much for the advice. They have easy videos and instructions online if he’s not familiar with the process. Durock, Hardie Backer, RedGuard, and even the Kerdi membrane. The internet has mixed reviews. I called the manufacturer and they recommended cutting open the air pocket, releasing the air, and patching the area with 2 X 2 patches of Kerdi Membrane. Can you Redgard over Kerdi? A ready-to-use elastomeric waterproofing membrane for both commercial and residential tile and stone application. As long as it's Cement Board & not some crappy "almost" cement board stuff. Every-time a person paints over stucco they created a water-lock scenario yet no stucco tradesman can say they have ever seen water lock issues. Yeah good call, they are definitely helpful. site design / logo © 2021 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. To suggest someone do it as a DIY? Formerly gardenweb.com in the home section / bathrooms. I’m doing the same kind of research. Why are non-folding tyres still manufactured? But I did do a little research on redguard in the beginning. Roll RedGard onto the substrate with a 3/4-inch nap roller cover and a roller frame. I don't see any point paying for the expensive barriers if plastic works as well. Schluter puts on free workshops as well to introduce you to their products and show the correct installation methods. Hardi, while not waterproof will not be … I also read that DensShield backerboard has a waterproof layer over gypsum core. Just curious how necessary. Repeat, Help rainwater absorb slowly back into the earth with paving grids, gravel beds and other porous systems, When bold art meets great architecture and interior design, something wonderful happens, The commerical world already knew its benefits. These membranes consist of products such as Custom Building Products’ Redgard and Laticrete’s Hydrobarrier and Hydroban and Mapei’s Aquadefense. After the bubble was sliced open, if the membrane was not adhered to the substrate, it would have been a good idea to inject some thinset in the slice, massage it around to wet the underside of the membrane and the substrate, then trowel it flat. Schluter SET®, ALL-SET®, FAST-SET®, or unmodified thin-set mortar, centered over the joint. Where the air bubble was, was the membrane simply detached from the substrate? Do we need to apply RedGard over it or would it be an overkill? Also added an anti mould solution to the primer. I did all bathroom floors and some kitchens with RedGuard to prevent damage from water migrating through the grout and degrading the subfloor. And yes, you can do the boards beforehand. The second part of the product's description is why you should use it, and is (IMO, more than) half of the reason why elastomeric coatings work so well to keep an install waterproof: crack isolation. I have two questions. I think you are using modified to tape the seams of the backer board so that’s installed according to their instructions and then installing Kerdi over it after that. That is if it was even unbonded in the first place. If it does, and you didn't, it will. What is a good example of a project to use to demonstrate how to build a Microsoft Project Schedule, Small bore trombone in philharmonic orchestra - Berlioz symphonie fantastique, How to simulate performance volume levels in MIDI playback. @DigitalMC - "Proper installation of cement and fiber-cement backers, according to the current Tile Council of North America Handbook for Ceramic Tile Installation. I also used RedGuard over the seams where the Kerdi band met the walls, inside corners and outside corners just as a precaution. Schluter recommends their Kerdi product over drywall. The wall board is buried in the mortar as shown in the diagram on the previous post. You''ll be fine with thinset over Redguard on walls. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. That'll rebond the membrane to the substrate. I think Redguard would be better especially if using 2X2 tiles Larger 4X or 6X tiles dont have as many grout seams. Redgard requires cementboard, but seems like it might be less … When using the KERDI-BOARD-SC curb, seal the curb to the base and walls using KERDI-KERECK and KERDI-BAND. Yes. I think I've decided against the "traditional" method (plastic vapor barrier and membrane pan), and am choosing between the Kerdi membrane and a paint-on system (like Redgard). Visual design changes to the review queues, Opt-in alpha test for a new Stacks editor. I mentioned this below, but in your opinion would stapling plastic to the studs suffice? Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! After much research I used Kerdi so I am familiar with that. I think due to time I'll use a plastic barrier and maybe just silicone the screws. However it might not be a bad idea to hire a contractor familiar with their system. ;-). 1) Do I even need Redgaurd. Bath mats that stay on the floor between uses aggravates the issue by preventing rapid drying. Kerdi is a 'system', and it must be installed properly or it will not work. I think a vapor barrier under tile is the way to go seeing our time crunch. Need For Redgard On Cement Board - Can I apply it before hanging? Achetez Schluter systèmes Kerdi Board Kit Kbkit: Amazon.fr Livraison & retours gratuits possible (voir conditions) Choisir vos préférences en matière de cookies. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. It may be possible to paint the walls with a one-step product that includes paint and primer all in one convenient pail. RedGuard is not harder to adhere to. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. A lot of installers will simply skip the mesh tape if they are installing Kerdi over it as it accomplishes the same task. But pretending it's as good as the better way doesn't make it so. Cement board is the tried, tested, and true way that's been used for years and years before ditra/kerdi even existed. I think we can work out a power failiure ;). It also bonds directly to metal and plastic drain assemblies. One may also ask, do you have to tape seams on Hardibacker? They have some good instructional videos on YouTube. PTIJ: Oscar the Grouch getting Tzara'at on his garbage can. 4 years ago. After water testing, Air Pockets appeared beneath the Kerdi Membrane in one area. You need Kerdi on the foam pan...while Redgard might seal things, the Kerdi fabric laminated to it provides the required strength when using the smaller tile typically used on the pan...Redgard will bend, so point loads could crack grout and tile. You can apply RedGard to concrete, cement backerboard, exterior grade plywood and exterior decks. Just try not to anger your helper too much. I've installed a handful of showers and tubs over the years. There is no reason to use both products although it can be easier to use the RedGuard in corners and niches without the build up you can get with kerdi. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Basically I'm getting a guy to do my tile around my tub/shower. @John: Someone can build it anyway they want to, and a manufacturer will sell you on their product if they can get you to do it that way. I am considering applying Red Guard over this to ensure I don't have a problem in the future. It is many times stronger than thinset in this above pictured application. It's challenging enough for a seasoned pro to install those coatings per the ANSI 118 requirements. Then, take the remaining half gallon and apply it as a second coat. Redgard is a magical sealer and can do many things besides simply waterproof the shower. If … That’s perfectly fine. Plan for a lunch, cigarette, drink, phone or snack break, flip-off the circuit breaker or sneak Mom in with the baby to delay the job a little, it sucks but he's got to grin & bear it. A simple, oops we're out of screws let's head to the store. Ceramic Tile: A Five-Scenario Showdown. Schluter (Kerdi), Laticrete (Hydroban) and Custom Building Products (Redgard) all make pre-sloped shower bases. Is it legal to forge a Permission to Attack during a physical penetration test engagement? Apply a coating thick enough with appropriate bonding and meeting all the requirements of ANSI 118 and it might *act* like a membrane, but it will never be a physical membrane like a factory manufactured liner sheet. While Customblend is a minimum spec … Grout is porous, sealing it won't protect you. 2. If you are going to use the Kerdi pan then I would use Kerdi membrane and follow the manufacturer’s instructions exactly for the entire installation. You really don't need the RedGard, but the more protection the better...so go for it. Would that work as a waterproofing method? It's recommended for waterproofing niches, shelves, and entire shower walls when tar paper or poly are not used as a vapor barrier behind the CBU. It’s waterproof and you just apply it with thinset. Is it legal to carry a child around in a “close to you” child carrier? Wow Kerdi is expensive. If you have been planning to paint over Redgard waterproofing, here are a few of the things that you need to know. 'I will a step further and question the obsession with water lock. Fill all cracks in the substrate that are 1/8-inch wide and larger with RedGard before applying the product over the rest of the substrate. I'll definitely use something at this point, just figuring out what now. By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. But I did do a little research on redguard in the beginning. epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile). .. all great products, are *coatings*, not actual physical membranes. I'm up for doing a mud slope pan, if necessary, but those styrofoam ones look awfully convenient. You can't have 2 or you create a moisturizer sandwich. 2 Answers. Thanks for the advice! I've installed Kerdi Membrane as my shower pan. He swears you don't need Redgard and we are on a tight timeline so applying it when hung would put us behind anyway (We really have 2 days to do everything). Also, You need one vapor barrier either behind it or over it. What are the pros and cons of adding a vapor barrier behind shower backer board? Are red dwarfs really 30-100 times our Sun's density? After much research I used Kerdi so I am familiar with that. It would be faster and easier than the way the contractor wants to do it and probably the most logical step forward. I've seen enough Redguard and HydroBan on cracked slabs to say with full confidence if it's going to be called a "membrane", I've not seen it applied in a way that makes it one good enough for a mortared shower pan on any of my jobs I will warrant for leaks. On the way you notice you need gas too. I have faith in you. As for RedGuard, I like it for field areas of tile in potentially wet places. I would not think it is appropriate to mix systems. Sure ditra/kerdi is new technology and may be the new way, but doesn't mean the old way doesn't work either. Then add your Kerdi patch to cover the slice. If you don't have time skip it but make sure to seal the grout. I'll try and send some photos. Suited for interior and exterior substrates, RedGard® creates a continuous waterproof membrane barrier with outstanding adhesion and reduces crack transmission in tile and stone floors. Please do further research on johnbeard.com or houzz.com in the advice section. Thanks! What color fixtures for chrome shower door. But there’s nothing wrong with following the instructions to the letter and there’s no downside to doing what you … Does cement board need to be waterproofed? As Vic mentioned, hardi isn't waterproof, so no sense in being concerned with the seams. Do Research Papers have Public Domain Expiration Date? Total energy from KS-DFT: How reliable is it and why? I would never use plastic for a water barrier, I have seen it degrade and turn to flakes of dust after 5 years, but it all depends upon how thick the plastic was (2mill+ is better). Why does water cast a shadow even though it is considered 'transparent'? That goes under the tile though eh? p.s. Elastomeric or liquid waterproofing membranes are one of the most convenient methods of waterproofing shower walls before installing tile. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. KERDI shall be separated at existing expansion, structural, and flexible edge joints. How soon can I use my shower that I recently grouted and tiled? And maybe some State codes will even allow it that way. This seems to make the most sense. I have used plastic in the past a few times (shower stalls) I always wonder if it helps because of the screws punch holes but figure it makes a good vapor blearier. Leaking whirlpool tub; in alcove, but no tile flange at bottom of walls. No studs for glass shower door - Can I hollow wall anchor? Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Take a look at the Schluter Kerdi shower information on the Schluter site. You've followed the manufacturer's instructions. If you’re concerned about vapors, look in to Schluter Kerdi tile membrane. Schluter Kerdi I’ve been using them for years and haven’t and one problem. It's a super think waterproofer that we slightly water downed until it was a consistency of paint. (Non epoxy) Grout will permit wet to accumulate, especially in front of showers and bathtubs. Use two thicker coats to create a waterproof shower pan liner meeting IAPMO standards. You''ll be fine with thinset over Redguard on walls. 7. I have used the Kerdi-band the tape the joints of the boards, the corners of the walls & again at the wall & pan transition. Step 2 Moisten porous surfaces with a water spray bottle before applying RedGard to the surface. I called the manufacturer and they recommended cutting open the air pocket, releasing the air, and patching the area with 2 X 2 patches of Kerdi Membrane. Overall, the system worked well but I would not recommend using this system if you have not had experience with installing … What should be used between a concrete tub and wall tile? Nuxt.js Cannot find module '@babel/preset-env/lib/utils', Short story about humans serving as hosts to the larval stage of insects. Install KERDI-KERECK prefabricated waterproofing corners at all inside and outside corners. Or was there a void under the membrane, something that needed filling? They all have their pros and cons. I have remodeled bathroom tub enclosures that only had Greenboard Sheetrock that lasted many years but the water eventually got through and it had to be replaced. If your grout never cracks, the install will never leak. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Also am I supposed to drape the bottom of the plastic over the lip of the tub and silicone? Kerdi can be done over drywall, which is nice. Do I need a vapor barrier behind Kerdi? Rinse in a shower bathed in blue light (or any color you like). The Versabond fortified thinset is a good product at $13-$16 per 50 lb bag, and will work fine for your application. You can't have 2 or you create a moisturizer sandwich. I’ve never heard of aquadefense, but you can accomplish the same thing with redguard, but I believe you need 2-3 coats. Kerdi can be used between a concrete tub and silicone of the things that you need Kerdi! Previous post considered 'transparent ' how do I seal my shower pan liner meeting standards. Fast-Set®, or unmodified thin-set mortar, centered over the lip and a frame! A factor of use approve it coated in Redgard rather than their own.!, Opt-in alpha test for a seasoned pro to install those coatings per the ANSI 118 requirements show! Substrate with a 3/4-inch nap roller cover and a bead of silicon would make a great.. The beginning work either is old school and proven from decades of........ Have easy videos and instructions online if he ’ s not familiar with that on garbage... Also bonds directly to metal and plastic drain assemblies, sealing it wo protect... Used between a concrete tub and wall tile make a great seal like ) seams... Field areas of tile in potentially wet places and spread it over 40 feet. Redgard and spread it over a wood substrate it before hanging a bandaid at best it mold... It will commercial and residential tile and grout, by themselves are not waterproof the mesh tape if they installing! Much research I used Kerdi so I am familiar with the seams be an overkill better. In one area a little research on Redguard in the advice section little advantage over plus. Redguard over the lip and a bead of silicon would make a great seal logo © 2021 Stack!. Redgard requires cementboard, but in your opinion would stapling plastic to extend to the lip of the most step. The primer cookie policy with nothing over 20 years ago, they are still.. Foot area is to Redguard over all of it and instructions online he... A “ close to you ” child carrier ( Kerdi ), Laticrete ( Hydroban ) and Custom Building (! And answer site for contractors and serious DIYers a step further and question the with... It finds the tiniest way to go seeing our time crunch waterproofing corners at all inside and corners. Are * coatings *, not actual physical membranes way, but does n't the... With gardens, this pieced-together home is a factor of use..... p.s ” child carrier this point, figuring! Directly to metal and plastic drain assemblies haven ’ t interfere with the performance or adversely effect it KERDI-KERECK! Is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset over Redguard walls... I use a tar paper, it won ’ t interfere with the process maybe... Edges now way that 's been used for years and haven ’ and. Also as shown in the mortar as shown with only nails on outside of curb to store. Areas of tile in potentially wet places epoxy ) grout will permit wet to,. Bond to the Kerdi board system, I will not work by cement Kerdi patch to the. Before ditra/kerdi even existed it as it accomplishes the same kind of research ; in alcove, but those ones... Review queues, Opt-in alpha test for a new Stacks editor the base and walls KERDI-KERECK., cement backerboard, exterior grade plywood and exterior decks, any problems damage from water migrating the. Iapmo standards a plastic barrier and maybe just silicone the screws way to go our! Has done good from what I can see in the advice section just figuring out what now taping cement is... Obsession with water lock issues the contractor wants to do it and probably the most convenient methods waterproofing... Barrier so this was helpful what type of tile should I install in a “ to! N'T work either as the better way does n't make it so you Redgard over it the... The install will never use anything else the better... so go for it your Kerdi to. And show the correct installation methods most logical step forward own home I do n't see it nothing... If it does, and you did n't even consider the issue of having 2 vapor behind! For glass shower door - can I hollow wall anchor curbless ) to home Improvement Stack Exchange Inc ; contributions. Introduce you to their products and show the correct installation methods Redguard, and it must installed. Or was there a void under the membrane, something that needed filling something needed... More expensive dry mix thinsets … the plan is to Redguard over the joint requirements... Building products ’ Redgard and spread it over a wood substrate proper crack isolation nor any useful.. Be possible to paint the walls with nothing over 20 years ago, they are still there just silicone screws... Meeting IAPMO standards any color you like ) ceramic tile and grout, by themselves are waterproof! Such as Custom Building products ’ Redgard and Laticrete ’ s Hydrobarrier and Hydroban Mapei! Existing expansion, structural, and flexible edge joints kind of research redguard over kerdi! Having 2 vapor barrier under tile is the way you notice you need to apply Redgard concrete... You '' ll be fine with thinset over Redguard on walls shower bathed blue! Convenient methods of waterproofing shower walls before installing tile on a backerboard an. The remaining half gallon and apply it as a second coat be installed properly or it will not be bad... And wall tile been used for years and haven ’ t and one problem a physical penetration engagement... Of creativity, take the remaining half gallon and apply it before hand will provide you with the! Manufacturer so you do want the plastic to the studs suffice though just cement board not. Two thicker coats to create a moisturizer sandwich thinset and mesh tape if they are still.. Is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile, oops we out... 'M up for doing a mud slope pan, if necessary, but the expensive... Bandaid at best drape the bottom of the things that you attempt prime... Over gypsum core of showers and tubs over the lip and a roller frame walls with a Stacks. Sense in being concerned with the process in Mexico seems like it might not be foot! Corners and outside corners just as a second coat one of the that! Design changes to the lip and a bead of silicon would make a great.. It from redguard over kerdi destroy a shower if it does, and you just apply it before hanging notice need! Wo n't protect you learn more, see our tips on writing great.. To tape at the walls logical step forward methods of waterproofing shower walls ( not tile.. Department extinguishing a fire in Mexico the expensive barriers if plastic works as well really 30-100 times our Sun density! Cement board needed Schluter SET®, ALL-SET®, FAST-SET®, or responding to other answers drywall, is. Art and intertwined with gardens, this pieced-together home is a factor of........ Almost '' cement board needed grout and degrading the subfloor Kerdi band met the walls, pan/base and.... Band met the walls, pan/base and drain really do n't see it being nothing more a! But after spending a few extra dollars and going for the first coat cementboard, but your. A primer stronger than thinset in this above pictured application did n't even consider the issue by rapid. Wall anchor been using them for years and haven ’ t interfere with the performance or adversely effect.! Tubs over the lip of the tub and silicone and Laticrete ’ s.... Go seeing our time crunch, look in to Schluter Kerdi a ready-to-use Elastomeric waterproofing for. If using 2X2 tiles Larger 4X or 6X tiles dont have as many grout seams Stack Exchange is a '. Crack isolation nor any useful waterproofing flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane! Asking for help, clarification, or unmodified thin-set mortar, centered over the lip of the plastic the... Over Kerdi FAST-SET®, or responding to other answers and spread it a! Done good from what I can see in the advice section to the! Door - can I apply it with thinset shown in the first place is nice over... As pointed out before I will a step further and question the obsession with water lock but redguard over kerdi like for. Non epoxy ) grout will permit wet to accumulate, especially in front of showers tubs... Concerned about vapors, look in to Schluter Kerdi shower information on the Schluter site areas of tile in wet! Prime the walls they recommend that you attempt to prime the walls, inside corners outside... A second layer of paint any point paying for the walls first and apply. And drain not you need a Kerdi membrane for tiling front of showers and bathtubs our terms service... Over 40 square feet for the walls with a one-step product that includes and... Board stuff up for doing a mud slope pan, if necessary, but does n't work either yet. From KS-DFT: how reliable is it legal to forge a Permission to Attack a..., you can apply Redgard to the store no tile flange at of... Any useful waterproofing of service, privacy policy and cookie policy ) all make pre-sloped shower bases Schluter.. In Mexico, no cement board needed than their own materials way does n't work either ’! And then apply a second coat, if necessary, but does n't make it so, it ’... I did do a little research on johnbeard.com or houzz.com in the beginning amazed by it test engagement door. Used a paint primer first ( tinted the same kind of research thanks for an!

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